Philosopher and ethicist, Peter Singer on Q&A.

Mr Singer appeared on Q&A on Monday night and said he supported the changes recommended by Fair Work Australia.

“I don’t see a real reason now when most Australians don’t go to church on Sunday, for paying penalty rates particularly for that day,” he said.

But Mr Singer sympathised that it would make the lowest-paid people worse off and didn’t understand why they couldn’t be compensated in some other way.

“Couldn’t that be fixed by adjustments in the minimum wage so that everybody, whether they work on Sunday or not, ends up being better off? That seems to me to be a more sensible option.”

But Special Minister of State, Senator Scott Ryan did not seem to be supportive of that idea, and said the changes would be phased in over several years.

“Let’s remember that there are plenty of small business people that do effectively work for free on the weekends to keep their business going,” he said.

“This isn’t about taking pay off the lowest workers. Bill Shorten did that when he signed deals.

“A lot of these penalty rates have been negotiated away by unions in large EBAs (Enterprise Bargaining Agreements).”

When pressed on whether the Government could provide some form of compensation Mr Ryan said “we don’t know how this will be put in place yet”.

Labor frontbencher Clare O’Neil slammed the penalty-rates decision saying Bill Shorten only considered supporting it because he didn’t think poorer people would be worse off.

“Exactly how unequal are we willing to allow Australia to become?” she said.

“This is a direct pay cut for 700,000 of the poorest-paid people in the country.”

She echoed Mr Singer’s comments and said the point was: “what is the Government going to do to help these people?”

Labor has come out in opposition to the decision and has introduced legislation into the parliament to stop it being implemented.

This is despite Opposition Leader Bill Shorten saying previously he would respect the commission’s decision.

Ms O’Neil said Mr Shorten made those comments under the assumption the commission would not put people further back than they already were.

“I think the fundamental test should be for people that are already so poorly paid, you’re not going to make them worse off as a consequence of the decision.

“The Fair Work Commission has done something that was unexpected and completely unacceptable to us as Labor people.”

Mr Ryan acknowledged the change involved a difficult trade-off as some people would lose money, but said tens of thousands of new jobs would be created.

Particularly in regional areas, he penalty rates may have been keeping some of the cafes and shops closed.

“The government is standing by the umpire,” he said.

“Bill Shorten is trying to create fake outrage here.”

Senator Scott Ryan said Opposition Leader Bill Shorten was creating ‘fake outrage’ over penalty rates.Source:Supplied

Former Abbott Government adviser Ted Lapkin said Australians should spare a few thoughts for small business owners.

“The issue of penalty rates in some cases is a real burden to small businesses,” he said.

“Small businesses are a large majority of the new jobs that are created.”

Mr Lapkin also warned that the massive debt that Australia was racking up could be driving the rise of populist parties.

“I think that we are living through the demise of the welfare state as it evolved after the Second World War,” he said.

The Q&A panel on Monday, February 27.Source:Supplied

“It is unsustainable. You see it in Europe. Greece is a leading edge of this.”

He said with the expected increase in debt in Australia, babies being born today were effectively being handed a bill of about $13,000 per person that would have to be paid well after people his age retired or passed away.

He said economic pain and social pain was creating a “political effect that hollows out the centre and feeds the extremes”.

“You’re seeing this in Europe ... you’re seeing this in the US ... you’re seeing this with Brexit and Marine Le Pen in France.”