While some found the prime minister’s choice unexpected, many considered Williams a logical fit. Having applied to be chair once before and managing director twice (once when he was 28), he has been on a collision course with the public broadcaster for nearly his entire professional life.

When appointed, there were few more surprised than him himself.

“I actually thought that the process was over and that I was unsuccessful,” he says, recalling the interview process. A report by The Australian two days before the announcement listed what it claimed were definitively the final three candidates. That list didn’t include Williams.

“I got the phone call the day before the announcement. Literally, the afternoon before the announcement the next day, the PM rang and suggested that I might want to come to Canberra.

“I said, ‘Do you care to give me a hint?’ and he said, ‘Well, let me put it this way, at 8.15 in the morning, I’m announcing you as the new chair of the ABC, I think it’d be a good idea if you were standing next to me’.”

“I said, when you put it like that, I’ll be there.”

The cafe Williams has chosen is fairly low-key and a shift downmarket from our initial plans made weeks earlier.

His first choice was to visit Monopole, a chic city wine bar recently reopened as a French bistro. Monopole’s menu boasts duck à l’orange and smoked eel mille-feuille, alongside other items I had to Google. This was a promising treat for a young(ish) reporter!

“I’ve got a very heavy afternoon, so I couldn’t get across town and then get back in time,” Williams explains. His second choice was suggested by the executive assistant of ABC managing director David Anderson, who resigned this week after six years at the helm.

Instead of what may have been a lunch accompanied by his renowned favourite, a Campari, Williams orders sparkling water. I have tap.

As usual, he is well-dressed, in a grey suit with a blue V-neck jumper and no tie. He wears his trademark owl glasses and an Order of Australia pin shows prominently on his lapel.

Williams comes highly qualified for the job. He has extensive experience in the arts, film, music, entertainment, and media industries and tells me he’s read virtually every book ever written on ABC.

“I think I’m pretty conversant with the institution and that I’m well positioned to make a contribution.”

Loading

But it is perhaps for his brief stint as News Corp Australia chief executive – having previously served Rupert Murdoch as Foxtel boss – that he is best known.

Williams quit after 20 months, losing an internal power struggle with the most senior editors. After this departure, the News Corp mastheads were considered by some to veer further to the right, playing a role in keeping the Coalition government in power until 2022 and contributing to perceived inaction on crucial policy areas such as climate.

I ask if Australia would be a different country today if he had stayed on and got his way.

“Very. Full stop,” he responds, but declines to go into further detail.

“I do not in any way engage in commentary about the News Corporation. I have moved on. It is what it is.

“I have no relationship with either [Lachlan or Rupert] Murdoch, and have not had a relationship with either since at its most recent August 8, 2013,” he says, the day he left Holt Street.

Williams acknowledges these roles and experiences amount to a privileged life. “I’ve no illusions. I’ve been very fortunate.”

He regards his new job as an honour. “It comes with obligation, it comes with burden. It comes with absolute performance standards, and I don’t mean that grandiloquently.”

He has spoken widely of his ambition to further government investment in the ABC and mentions the ABC Act frequently and deliberately, indicating a deep respect for what he calls “a complicated beast”.

“It’s sort of frustratingly resistant to be typecast, although many have an irresistible desire to typecast us.”

For lunch, Williams opts for the roasted chicken salad, served with a smattering of pomegranate seeds and walnuts. This will serve as the one meal he eats daily. I order the grilled chicken sandwich.

The chair of the ABC acts as the bridge between the organisation, its board and the government. Ministers don’t shy away from offering their thoughts on the broadcaster.

Since March, he says members of the government have offered him full and frank advice, some of it “character-forming”.

“I’ve had advice and feedback from members of the Coalition in ways that are similarly frank and fearless, and in some instances, I should say, refreshingly positive.”

Loading

Speaking of character-forming criticism, Williams’ comments to Radio National staff in July, later published by this masthead, offering his frank thoughts on the ABC’s news priorities were shared widely among his staff. While firm, they were largely well-received.

Better investment in the ABC is an investment in Australian democracy and society, he says.

One of the areas he argues could benefit from greater investment is children’s programming, which is “drowning in an absolute tidal wave of non-Australian content”.

“It is important that we protect, nurture and nourish Australian values and aspirations which are distinctively different from those of America or the United Kingdom.

“There is a beauty in seeing Bluey, which is so rich with all those sorts of Australian values, being the number one children’s program on planet Earth.”

Retaining the commercial rights to Bluey from the outset may have helped the ABC with its investment ambitions. Instead, the BBC’s commercial arm holds them. Bluey has been more than fruitful for the BBC, its recent annual report calling it a “highlight” of the £1.8 billion ($3.48 billion) in sales revenue in 2023/24.

“The circumstances that were evident at the time [...] when the decision to do Bluey dictated certain commercial outcomes, others were putting more money into the program and had a better place in the queue relative to the rights and the participation,” Williams explains.

“Is that to be regretted? You bet. Is it a fatal flaw? Absolutely not, and I think it’s very unfair for people to say that.”

The cafe staff take our plates and we order two long blacks to steer us home before he has to head back for that busy afternoon.

So, how does Williams relax and unwind from such a high-pressure, hectic job?

Aside from music, Williams says reading is “core to his being” and that he is an “obsessive consumer of media”.

His media diet includes the major Australian newspapers, The New York Times, The Economist (his favourite general news and commentary publication), The New York Review, The New Yorker, The Australian Book Review, The Griffith Review, The Monthly, The Saturday Paper, The Quarterly Essay, Australian Foreign Affairs and The Jewish Quarterly.

This is a “small summary” of the large number of subscriptions he has, which also includes Spotify, Netflix, Disney+, Foxtel (and its digital platforms), Mubi, DocPlay, AppleTV+, Amazon Prime Video, and others – but recently, he and his wife watch little other than the ABC. He also reads lots of books and listens to many podcasts.

I wonder how he finds time to do anything else.

Yet, despite Williams’ erudite public persona, he says the image doesn’t match reality.

“That doesn’t particularly worry me because I’m not living a life to be in public. I’m living a life to make a difference. The way people see me or describe me is something that I’m not really very much engaged with.”

No ABC chair has served a second term since Donald McDonald nearly two decades ago. Now 72, should he seek a second term, Williams would enter it at the same age as his predecessor, Buttrose.

A second term isn’t up to him, however, and Williams sees it as a “five-year job”. Why?

“Because that’s the term of the appointment. I don’t think beyond that, but I think probably that would be a time when you pass a baton to whomever the government of the day chooses.”

If it is a single term, Williams doesn’t have long to see his vast vision to improve the broadcaster and its funding play out, though he says he is a very determined person.

“I have a long history of working with people, not working against people. My natural instinct is to seek a workable consensus.”

He doesn’t shy away from conflict when required, however.

After a public Q&A with former ABC host Kerry O’Brien at the Byron Bay Writers Festival this month, Williams was confronted by an audience member.

“He says, ‘you know your problem at the ABC, you’ve got no balls. You have no balls for comedy, you have no balls for the news ...’”

“I said, if you’re referring to me personally, sir, I can assure you, I’m absent many things in life, but I’m not absent balls.

“I think he was shocked that I spoke to him in that way. I was shocked that he spoke to me in that way!”

Williams may have to confront the harsh financial realities his predecessors faced at the ABC. But the uncompromising and determined approach he appears to have brought has given its supporters a glimmer of hope.

While media companies are ailing and slashing staff following Meta’s exit from bargaining code agreements, Williams says the 60 regional journalists it hired with the funds will remain.

“It’s not up for discussion or action. They will stay.”

While that’s good news for the regional reporters, the reduction in funding due to the deal expiring means the broader future of the ABC – and its staff – remains uncertain and in the hands of the board led by Williams. Let’s hope Spotify does its bit by expanding its classical music catalogue.

This interview was conducted before the ABC’s managing director David Anderson resigned.

Start the day with a summary of the day’s most important and interesting stories, analysis and insights. Sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter.